This four year old discussion really explains why I've changed my mind so much, or at least provides a goodly amount of insight.
http://greyhawkgrognard.blogspot.com/2009/04/ad-3rd-edition.html
A fellow by the name of Chris did almost exactly what I'm doing, but to his taste. He took AD&D 1E and 2E, mixed them with 3E and Castles and Crusades, to make his perfect D&D. He copied text wholesale like I intend to, and even went so far as to use the original artwork and covers.
A lot of people gave him flack because he didn't make it OGL friendly, and isn't sharing it the "right way". Now this was four years ago, and it's still up surprisingly. At the time though, a few people were concerned it would make the OSR look bad, and WOTC would hunt him down, etc. What these people fail to realize is Scope and Time.
See with other retroclones they have one, maybe three source documents they're working from. They just have to rewrite a single, or maybe a few books, and that's that. Myself, on the other hand, am going to be referencing dozens, if not hundreds of sources for my project. Copying out the information is going to take long enough, imagine taking the time to reword it. Especially since you can only rewrite the definition of strength so many times.
This is partly why I've given up on making something legally publishable. Not only do I know I'll have little to know interest (I've checked a few forums, and only 1 person has played Chris' game), but the amount of work that will go into making an OGL friendly document would be ridiculous on my part.
Of course this isn't anything I haven't said before, and I've known about AD&D3, but it's interesting to view a similar situation. Definitely solidifies my decision in all of this. However just like Chris', I'll be more than willing to share my work, with anyone that can look past the "blatant plagiarism", and see it for the laborious work it is.
Sunday, July 28, 2013
BRP is a Better D&D
If any of you are really into RPGs, and particularly BRP, you'll know there's a cool project called Classic Fantasy. The author converted D&D to Basic Role Playing, a percentile based role playing system. A lot of guys in the BRP community are claiming it does classic dungeon crawling better than current D&D, and I'm starting to see why.
Something I've noticed while going through all of the 1st Edition stuff, is almost every other mechanic or stat in the game has a percentage equivalent marked out next to it. Chances for surprise, disease mechanics, reaction rolls, etc... Even Arneson, who really came up with the role playing aspect of D&D came out with Adventures in Fantasy, in which he converted the attack tables to percentage based.
The skill system my wife convinced me to include was essentially that of BRP, you have a percentage chance for the skills, and you roll under your stat to succeed. What does this sound like? Rogue skills. Gygax, with the creation of the thief, essentially created the underlying system for BRP. In my game I differentiate between class skills that Rogues, Rangers, etc.. have, and mundane general skills. However what makes most sense to me, is simply extending the Thief skill system, to the more mundane skills of D&D, like non-weapon proficiencies.
I already intended to include non D&D sources in my game like Chivalry & Sorcery and Runequest for some ideas, but now it seems more clear then ever, that D&D is really every RPG.
Of course if I'm including a skill system, possibly including something like feats, having all of the extra classes, and using ascending armor class, why not play 3rd Edition? Because AD&D does it better. That's for another post, and idea I have, but suffice it to say; the d20 mechanic that's supposed to simplify the game, really doesn't.
From experience it's easier to have a bunch of unrelated, simple sub-systems, than trying to make one mechanic cover every possible situation. When you do that, you end up having to have a million special circumstances, and spot rules, that really end up being different sub-systems.
Something I've noticed while going through all of the 1st Edition stuff, is almost every other mechanic or stat in the game has a percentage equivalent marked out next to it. Chances for surprise, disease mechanics, reaction rolls, etc... Even Arneson, who really came up with the role playing aspect of D&D came out with Adventures in Fantasy, in which he converted the attack tables to percentage based.
The skill system my wife convinced me to include was essentially that of BRP, you have a percentage chance for the skills, and you roll under your stat to succeed. What does this sound like? Rogue skills. Gygax, with the creation of the thief, essentially created the underlying system for BRP. In my game I differentiate between class skills that Rogues, Rangers, etc.. have, and mundane general skills. However what makes most sense to me, is simply extending the Thief skill system, to the more mundane skills of D&D, like non-weapon proficiencies.
I already intended to include non D&D sources in my game like Chivalry & Sorcery and Runequest for some ideas, but now it seems more clear then ever, that D&D is really every RPG.
Of course if I'm including a skill system, possibly including something like feats, having all of the extra classes, and using ascending armor class, why not play 3rd Edition? Because AD&D does it better. That's for another post, and idea I have, but suffice it to say; the d20 mechanic that's supposed to simplify the game, really doesn't.
From experience it's easier to have a bunch of unrelated, simple sub-systems, than trying to make one mechanic cover every possible situation. When you do that, you end up having to have a million special circumstances, and spot rules, that really end up being different sub-systems.
Sunday, July 14, 2013
A Couple Genuine RetroClone Ideas
When I first got into D&D I was completely clueless about everything. I had no clue what editions were, or how retroclones worked. I just know there was an "Original" and that's what we played. When I discovered OSRIC I was amazed! Old School Rules Index & Compendium (IIRC). Of course I thought to myself "Oh how wonderful! Someone has taken all of the rules from all the old school versions of D&D and put them in one place!". Of course I was sadly wrong, not to say OSRIC isn't great, because it is, but I just didn't know back then.
Every once in a while, during my work on Arcane Adventures, I still think back to that idea. What if someone did collect all of the "old school rules" and put them in one place. Well this isn't really possible because there's so much of a difference between every edition, particularly with small rules, but that doesn't stop me from thinking up horrible ideas.
First what about an Advanced Dungeons & Dragon clone that took the rules from both 1E and 2E and put them in one spot. There would be some differences, for sure, but so much of it is similar and works together, it wouldn't be too far off.
You could do the same for Basic D&D. Of course that's even worse, because some editions give bonuses where others don't, etc. However if I did take somewhat of an Arcane Adventures approach to the task, you'd simply pick the best, most developed, and sensible rule perhaps.
For OD&D I'd love to stick all of the information from the Little Brown Books in one place. Several people have done this. I'd like to reorganize, however I don't want to change any of it. Then I could take the Swords & Wizardry approach and make a second book that includes either all of the OD&D stuff, or just an expansion with all of the supplement material.
Why bother? Well perhaps not to make RetroClones or games that can be played, but to make an actual Rules Index & Compendium. It's an interesting thought at least to me. With Arcane Adventures I'm already somewhat doing this, however I do acknowledge I'm changing a lot of the rules, big and small. It'd be nice, if I'm on a retro-kick to play some unaltered D&D, but have all the rules for whatever I want to play in one place.
Thoughts anyone?
Every once in a while, during my work on Arcane Adventures, I still think back to that idea. What if someone did collect all of the "old school rules" and put them in one place. Well this isn't really possible because there's so much of a difference between every edition, particularly with small rules, but that doesn't stop me from thinking up horrible ideas.
First what about an Advanced Dungeons & Dragon clone that took the rules from both 1E and 2E and put them in one spot. There would be some differences, for sure, but so much of it is similar and works together, it wouldn't be too far off.
You could do the same for Basic D&D. Of course that's even worse, because some editions give bonuses where others don't, etc. However if I did take somewhat of an Arcane Adventures approach to the task, you'd simply pick the best, most developed, and sensible rule perhaps.
For OD&D I'd love to stick all of the information from the Little Brown Books in one place. Several people have done this. I'd like to reorganize, however I don't want to change any of it. Then I could take the Swords & Wizardry approach and make a second book that includes either all of the OD&D stuff, or just an expansion with all of the supplement material.
Why bother? Well perhaps not to make RetroClones or games that can be played, but to make an actual Rules Index & Compendium. It's an interesting thought at least to me. With Arcane Adventures I'm already somewhat doing this, however I do acknowledge I'm changing a lot of the rules, big and small. It'd be nice, if I'm on a retro-kick to play some unaltered D&D, but have all the rules for whatever I want to play in one place.
Thoughts anyone?
Wednesday, July 3, 2013
One-On-One and Non-D&D Resources
I haven't played D&D, Arcane Adventures, or really any role playing or tabletop game in a while. My wife and I tried to play some Axis & Allies, but the cats decided that wasn't allowed, and knocked it on to the ground. (As a note for any old schoolers who know what Axis & Allies is, I actually have an original copy from 1984 my dad gave me. Probably not really that cool, but definitely cool to me when I was growing up).
Now I've written about my wife a lot, and that's really because she's my partner in all of this. Honestly I feel I might have down played her contributions, in an effort to be self conscious, and not come off as that sort of John Lennon-like guy. Quite frankly I married my best friend, who happens to be just as obsessed with tabletop games as I am. With that said, today she brought up the idea of one-on-one tabletop games. Of course we've played D&D with just the two of us before, and we've played card games, and board games; but she wanted something different.
Specifically she wanted a game where we could both play, and neither of us had to strictly DM or referee. Now we've actually done this before. As I've read other lonely nerds, DM's, and wargamers oft do, I've setup and played games by myself for hypothetical purposes, or to test game mechanics. Naturally when I got into old school D&D via Swords & Wizardry, I wanted to run a test game to really understand the rules before I attempted to referee a game.
Watching me tinker with the new game, my wife asked if she could join in. We made a four character party, and proceeded to raid the dungeon. I'd simply roll on the random charts to determine what was in each room, and I handled the monsters. Obviously this style of play precludes certain elements of mystery, and having to play the monsters, I'd have to read their description and know their weaknesses. My wife's solution is to have a "party leader" and "referee player"; the party leader makes tactical decisions, and the referee player handles the monsters. With this dual role system, one player is free to "play dumb", but still gets to roll for his characters, gain xp, and actually fight monsters; while the other player gets to think out the situation, and actually have the mental challenge. Obviously players would trade roles frequently, or at least every other session.
This was all retrospective thought, as we thought back and remembered we'd already done this. Before reminiscing however, I recalled another game I had looked at that was touted as "GM-less". The Mythic role playing game has a Game Master Emulator (which is available by itself). I went ahead and grabbed a copy of both, as I no longer had them. What I found out was great, the Game Master Emulator can be used with any role playing game.
All of this leads me to how I play and run D&D; pillaging everything. Whether it's other games like Runequest, or TV shows like Hercules, I steal what I can from everything. I'm sure most gamers do this, but I'll outline some of the places I go to, or at least plan on going to to for ideas.
Just as some examples of what I've been tossing around in my mind as sources that aren't actually D&D related, or D20:
-Mythic, obviously, as I've already stated, and particularly for the GM emulator.
-Runequest, which I've been told has some very interesting monsters and environment.
-Elder Scrolls for monsters, environment ideas, and possibly even some mechanics
Now this one is going to be a bit far off for most old schoolers. I know most guys in the OSR, and who play 2E back are usually at least in their 30's, and some are even older. As a rather young guy, I have some fond memories of Pokemon, though just the TV show. I never got into the card games, or videos games, and only watched for a little bit. However everyone from generation is into it, so I'm constantly being bombarded by images of the series. One thing that really sticks out to me, at least with the early Pokemon, is how they'd make great D&D monsters.
A lot of the art for Pokemon is actually pretty good, and while some of the monster concepts are pretty generic or simple, I think they fit the D&D generic. Electric rats, serpent like rock golems, heck there is even a Pokemon that's basically black ooze. With an endless list of monsters, I don't see why it couldn't be pillaged for some interesting, and novel additions to a monster manual. Even some of the other modern shows and games like Yugioh could be used.
Now I've written about my wife a lot, and that's really because she's my partner in all of this. Honestly I feel I might have down played her contributions, in an effort to be self conscious, and not come off as that sort of John Lennon-like guy. Quite frankly I married my best friend, who happens to be just as obsessed with tabletop games as I am. With that said, today she brought up the idea of one-on-one tabletop games. Of course we've played D&D with just the two of us before, and we've played card games, and board games; but she wanted something different.
Specifically she wanted a game where we could both play, and neither of us had to strictly DM or referee. Now we've actually done this before. As I've read other lonely nerds, DM's, and wargamers oft do, I've setup and played games by myself for hypothetical purposes, or to test game mechanics. Naturally when I got into old school D&D via Swords & Wizardry, I wanted to run a test game to really understand the rules before I attempted to referee a game.
Watching me tinker with the new game, my wife asked if she could join in. We made a four character party, and proceeded to raid the dungeon. I'd simply roll on the random charts to determine what was in each room, and I handled the monsters. Obviously this style of play precludes certain elements of mystery, and having to play the monsters, I'd have to read their description and know their weaknesses. My wife's solution is to have a "party leader" and "referee player"; the party leader makes tactical decisions, and the referee player handles the monsters. With this dual role system, one player is free to "play dumb", but still gets to roll for his characters, gain xp, and actually fight monsters; while the other player gets to think out the situation, and actually have the mental challenge. Obviously players would trade roles frequently, or at least every other session.
This was all retrospective thought, as we thought back and remembered we'd already done this. Before reminiscing however, I recalled another game I had looked at that was touted as "GM-less". The Mythic role playing game has a Game Master Emulator (which is available by itself). I went ahead and grabbed a copy of both, as I no longer had them. What I found out was great, the Game Master Emulator can be used with any role playing game.
All of this leads me to how I play and run D&D; pillaging everything. Whether it's other games like Runequest, or TV shows like Hercules, I steal what I can from everything. I'm sure most gamers do this, but I'll outline some of the places I go to, or at least plan on going to to for ideas.
Just as some examples of what I've been tossing around in my mind as sources that aren't actually D&D related, or D20:
-Mythic, obviously, as I've already stated, and particularly for the GM emulator.
-Runequest, which I've been told has some very interesting monsters and environment.
-Elder Scrolls for monsters, environment ideas, and possibly even some mechanics
Now this one is going to be a bit far off for most old schoolers. I know most guys in the OSR, and who play 2E back are usually at least in their 30's, and some are even older. As a rather young guy, I have some fond memories of Pokemon, though just the TV show. I never got into the card games, or videos games, and only watched for a little bit. However everyone from generation is into it, so I'm constantly being bombarded by images of the series. One thing that really sticks out to me, at least with the early Pokemon, is how they'd make great D&D monsters.
A lot of the art for Pokemon is actually pretty good, and while some of the monster concepts are pretty generic or simple, I think they fit the D&D generic. Electric rats, serpent like rock golems, heck there is even a Pokemon that's basically black ooze. With an endless list of monsters, I don't see why it couldn't be pillaged for some interesting, and novel additions to a monster manual. Even some of the other modern shows and games like Yugioh could be used.
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