I've been refereeing a diverse play group finally, and it's really cemented my views on Dungeons & Dragons. All of my players have been extremely helpful in playtesting my "Dungeon Crawl" (we've settled on that name for now) rules for Arcane Adventures.
One of my players has been extremely vocal and enthused about the playtest. He's a 3E player, and in interest of making the game fun for himself, and making sure it achieves my goals, he's been intentionally trying to break it. He's not being rude by any means of course, and it's been really helpful, and I see the few things I need to fix before I do anything serious with my game. In fact it's been nice to see that I won't have to make many changes, as my game handles powergaming really well.
What's great though is we've been having really constructive conversations about our styles of game play. This player, my wife, and myself have been discussing the differences from the mix of AD&D we play, and 3E which he plays. The best part of these discussions is we acknowledge the differences, and always come to the agreement that neither is superior, both are fun, in different ways.
This player has also played some AD&D when he was younger, and several of the players at the store have played AD&D. I've also been discussing ideas and how we play our games with those players as well. As I've said before, I never actually played AD&D in it's hay day (I wasn't even alive back then), I've really just been discovering AD&D/Old School D&D through the web, retroclones, and the books I mange to find.
From the discussions with these players, I'm finding that only one player I've gotten to talk to extensively on the matter played AD&D the way I've heard it played. This player is in my game, which is working great to add to the diversity. He's loving how old school my game feels, and he shares my mentality strongly, that every editions has cool stuff to add to the game. However like I said, he's about the only player who still has a positive view of AD&D after all of these years.
What I have noticed about the players who don't like AD&D, is that they are very self-centered in their playing style. This is by no means an insult, and my 3E player will proudly exclaim he's selfish when he plays. There's nothing wrong with that, when people play games they want to win, and that in itself is selfish. I have noticed that this affects the game though; in that they play the game to suit their whims and accomplish their goals. My old school players on the other hand; play the game to accomplish the game's goals and work in the game world.
In other words, the real difference between old school and new school is the player mentalities of whether the game is meant to fit the player, or the player fit the game. Neither option is bad really, but this is the point I'm getting to about how D&D used to be played. I wasn't around back then, and I don't know if the majority of old school bloggers actually represent how games were played back then, but what I do know is how they're being played now.
I just found this site and, this particular article is of great value:
http://web.fisher.cx/robert/infogami/Classic_D&D:_I_used_to_think...
Something I found extremely interesting is that my 3E player admitted that AD&D allows for much more creativity than 3E, because of a lack of rules. I do not know if the rules lite mentality was actually used back in the 80's, or if people actually did roleplay out traps and challenges. What I do is that several people have pointed out that it can be played in a creative way, and that's the way I'm playing it.
Monday, September 30, 2013
Monday, September 23, 2013
What 3.5/d20 Is Great For
I've recently come into possession of several 3rd Edition books, a Pathfinder Core Rulebook, a set of core 4E books, and already have a nice collection of varied roleplaying game books. I've been mulling over some thoughts I've already had, and have come to some realizations about those thoughts, in particular relation to official D&D games.
If it isn't already apparent to you, every kind of book is useful in D&D. Particularly in old school D&D there is a great emphasis placed on knowledge, fluff, and flavor text. OD&D and AD&D particular have numerous references on reading literature for inspiration, and going to the local library to find out about areas of interest. In games that have no rules systems for out of combat activity, real world knowledge can be used to fill in the gaps, and actually roleplay what will happen. Of course this also means that any RPG material can be used with D&D to help fill in gaps, especially in older editions where rules subsystems are encouraged, you can wholesale import rules from other games.
With that caveat out of the way, what is common in every edition of D&D in particular? Hit Points and Armor Class. In fact that is what really makes D&D, D&D; the d20 attack roll. This means that every edition's monsters in particular, are generally usable across the board with minimal tweaking. This is especially true for converting newer monsters to TSR era D&D. Any hit point value can be easily converted to a hit dice value; use whatever editions combat tables for monsters to determine attack roll value; and finally "flip" and possibly reduce armor class.
Before I start hearing contentions about how "mathematically" there is a huge difference between editions, I want to point out that there actually isn't. If you stop seeing every kobold as a "kobold", and start seeing them as different kinds of kobolds, or different monsters altogether, with similarities, you are now free to use every editions book. In fact, maybe you like 3E's kobold better than AD&D's, that's great, you now have a better version of a monster you want to include. So instead of thinking about how monsters that are found in all versions of the game, as being different, consider them as more monsters to use. Maybe change the description, or include them as leaders or super-variants.
What's of great interest to me, as a DM, is 3rd Edition/d20 monsters. I have a copy of Call of Cthulhu d20, and it hit me like a brick: I want to toss some Cthulhu monsters at my players! I love the cosmic horror aspect, and there's already several Cthulhu monsters in D&D. I was going to convert some from Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu, but it's d100 and would be a bit of work. Now I can just use the monsters from my d20 book. Another brainstorm I had was using the Star Wars d20 books. There's a Rancor action figure in my FLGS and I joked about sending it after my players, when I realized, "Oh wait, I can!".
With the d20 system its extremely easy to convert monsters to old school D&D. There's a few conversions guides online, but I'll go over some of what I've been doing to quickly use 3.5 monsters in my game. There's no attempt to scale their difficulty or make them easier to fight, because the player's will be rewarded with ample XP, and as a DM I can determine what's reasonable for them to fight.
First off lets look at Armor Class. If you're using something like Basic Fantasy, Swords & Wizardry, or Castles & Crusades, simply us the Armor Class as is. If you're really bothered about ridiculously high AC, cap it at 30 like it was in older games. BFRPG has a lovely conversion document that scales armor classes above 25 (IIRC). If you're using AD&D of some sort, simply subtract the AC from 20, and once again you can limit it to -10, and even scale AC over -5, or 0.
Combat stats are extremely easy, because you can just look up their attack values in the edition you're using. Use the combat tables or formulas appropriate to your chosen edition.
Feats and special abilities are going to be more difficult, but can either be largely ignored, or you can look up how they work. Every edition has had special monster abilities, like swallowing whole or ability drain. You can either take the time to convert the rules/modify them, or do the real old school method and adjudicate the abilities based off flavor text.
Finally the most important aspect is Hit Points and Hit Dice. I found out that the number in parenthesis for 3.5 monster books, is actually the maximum hit points for old school monsters of the same type. So you can either divide that number by 8 and come up with their d8 hit dice value; or you can simply roll up the hit dice as only d8, either ignoring or including the extra hit points. Determining the number of Hit Dice is extremely important, because this is used for rewarding experience points, and for determine relative level (and therefore difficulty) of the monster. Personally I'm using (and loving) the 2E Ravenloft appendix for determining monster experience value. This table, and most old school XP tables, includes ways of adding monster abilities to their level, to get a general idea of a monster's level.
To me the above is relatively simple, and I've been applying the methods, with great success in my games. This has encouraged me to look at all sorts of d20 books for inspiration, and resources for Arcane Adventures. There are the Star Wars d20 books if you want some exotic alien-like monsters; there is Swords & Sorcery books, very genre appropriate (especially the Tome of Horrors series for old school games); Pathfinder has some wonderful Bestiaries, and the revisited series that's great for themed adventures.
I haven't had a good chance to look over the 4E monster manual, but a player has already agreed to help me convert some monsters from it that he wants to face. I can't imagine it would be much different than what I've discussed above. Once again divide hit point values by 5 or 8 (depending on whats' appropriate), adjudicate special abilities, Flip/Reduce/ or use armor class as is, and determine XP value.
There are obviously more useful books than just the monster books, but to discuss them all in detail like above would take a whole book (Arcane Adventures...). My wife has been browsing Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium, and I've looked at it with her. It's filled with wonderful magic items, that have great fluff, and whose mechanical aspects can either be ignored, or easily converted to be appropriate for old school gaming. I already use several Dungeon Master Guides for random tables, and general advice for my campaigns. My player's love using various editions Player's Handbooks for character fluff, special abilities that I let them gain through role playing for example, and other information.
If it isn't already apparent to you, every kind of book is useful in D&D. Particularly in old school D&D there is a great emphasis placed on knowledge, fluff, and flavor text. OD&D and AD&D particular have numerous references on reading literature for inspiration, and going to the local library to find out about areas of interest. In games that have no rules systems for out of combat activity, real world knowledge can be used to fill in the gaps, and actually roleplay what will happen. Of course this also means that any RPG material can be used with D&D to help fill in gaps, especially in older editions where rules subsystems are encouraged, you can wholesale import rules from other games.
With that caveat out of the way, what is common in every edition of D&D in particular? Hit Points and Armor Class. In fact that is what really makes D&D, D&D; the d20 attack roll. This means that every edition's monsters in particular, are generally usable across the board with minimal tweaking. This is especially true for converting newer monsters to TSR era D&D. Any hit point value can be easily converted to a hit dice value; use whatever editions combat tables for monsters to determine attack roll value; and finally "flip" and possibly reduce armor class.
Before I start hearing contentions about how "mathematically" there is a huge difference between editions, I want to point out that there actually isn't. If you stop seeing every kobold as a "kobold", and start seeing them as different kinds of kobolds, or different monsters altogether, with similarities, you are now free to use every editions book. In fact, maybe you like 3E's kobold better than AD&D's, that's great, you now have a better version of a monster you want to include. So instead of thinking about how monsters that are found in all versions of the game, as being different, consider them as more monsters to use. Maybe change the description, or include them as leaders or super-variants.
What's of great interest to me, as a DM, is 3rd Edition/d20 monsters. I have a copy of Call of Cthulhu d20, and it hit me like a brick: I want to toss some Cthulhu monsters at my players! I love the cosmic horror aspect, and there's already several Cthulhu monsters in D&D. I was going to convert some from Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu, but it's d100 and would be a bit of work. Now I can just use the monsters from my d20 book. Another brainstorm I had was using the Star Wars d20 books. There's a Rancor action figure in my FLGS and I joked about sending it after my players, when I realized, "Oh wait, I can!".
With the d20 system its extremely easy to convert monsters to old school D&D. There's a few conversions guides online, but I'll go over some of what I've been doing to quickly use 3.5 monsters in my game. There's no attempt to scale their difficulty or make them easier to fight, because the player's will be rewarded with ample XP, and as a DM I can determine what's reasonable for them to fight.
First off lets look at Armor Class. If you're using something like Basic Fantasy, Swords & Wizardry, or Castles & Crusades, simply us the Armor Class as is. If you're really bothered about ridiculously high AC, cap it at 30 like it was in older games. BFRPG has a lovely conversion document that scales armor classes above 25 (IIRC). If you're using AD&D of some sort, simply subtract the AC from 20, and once again you can limit it to -10, and even scale AC over -5, or 0.
Combat stats are extremely easy, because you can just look up their attack values in the edition you're using. Use the combat tables or formulas appropriate to your chosen edition.
Feats and special abilities are going to be more difficult, but can either be largely ignored, or you can look up how they work. Every edition has had special monster abilities, like swallowing whole or ability drain. You can either take the time to convert the rules/modify them, or do the real old school method and adjudicate the abilities based off flavor text.
Finally the most important aspect is Hit Points and Hit Dice. I found out that the number in parenthesis for 3.5 monster books, is actually the maximum hit points for old school monsters of the same type. So you can either divide that number by 8 and come up with their d8 hit dice value; or you can simply roll up the hit dice as only d8, either ignoring or including the extra hit points. Determining the number of Hit Dice is extremely important, because this is used for rewarding experience points, and for determine relative level (and therefore difficulty) of the monster. Personally I'm using (and loving) the 2E Ravenloft appendix for determining monster experience value. This table, and most old school XP tables, includes ways of adding monster abilities to their level, to get a general idea of a monster's level.
To me the above is relatively simple, and I've been applying the methods, with great success in my games. This has encouraged me to look at all sorts of d20 books for inspiration, and resources for Arcane Adventures. There are the Star Wars d20 books if you want some exotic alien-like monsters; there is Swords & Sorcery books, very genre appropriate (especially the Tome of Horrors series for old school games); Pathfinder has some wonderful Bestiaries, and the revisited series that's great for themed adventures.
I haven't had a good chance to look over the 4E monster manual, but a player has already agreed to help me convert some monsters from it that he wants to face. I can't imagine it would be much different than what I've discussed above. Once again divide hit point values by 5 or 8 (depending on whats' appropriate), adjudicate special abilities, Flip/Reduce/ or use armor class as is, and determine XP value.
There are obviously more useful books than just the monster books, but to discuss them all in detail like above would take a whole book (Arcane Adventures...). My wife has been browsing Mordenkainen's Magnificent Emporium, and I've looked at it with her. It's filled with wonderful magic items, that have great fluff, and whose mechanical aspects can either be ignored, or easily converted to be appropriate for old school gaming. I already use several Dungeon Master Guides for random tables, and general advice for my campaigns. My player's love using various editions Player's Handbooks for character fluff, special abilities that I let them gain through role playing for example, and other information.
Wednesday, September 18, 2013
My Dungeon Crawl Rules
I finally got to play test my 3E "dungeon crawl" rules that utilize the "d20 mechanic". I've got them to fit in a nice 20 page booklet, which I might make available if it's legal to do so (I need to recheck if any of it was lifted wholesale). Classes are extremely simple, as are races, and I've included a much simplified skill set.
There are glaring differences in play style from old school, however I'm not sure if it is due to mechanics, or my new play group. I've finally started going to my local gaming store, and a couple of the guys in my group are mainly 3.5/Pathfinder players. The good news is they love my rules, I'm not sure if they like them more than 3E, but they are extremely enthusiastic about them. The best part is they aren't asking to play 3E instead, and I've allowed them the use of any 3E books with my rules.
One of the players has really used that ability, and is using a class from Pathfinder (Oracle), and several feats from 3E.
As I said it's a very different style of gaming, it's much easier than strait old school, and characters are much more powerful. Furthermore because of it's similarities to 3rd Edition the 3E players are definitely focused on builds, and manipulating the rules for character creation. The system is definitely handling it well, and it's still no where as complicated or time consuming as 3rd or 4th Edition D&D. Overall I'd say I was successful in my goals, as it definitely feels like playing a video game, but it's still rules-lite and fast to play like OD&D.
Something that I love about my game is that anyone can play and have a good time. Whether that's because of rules, or despite them I don't know, but I do know that we're having fun. We've got old school players in our group that have never touched 3rd, we've got almost completely new players that played 4th once, and we've got experienced 3.5 players, and all of them are having a blast. More importantly, they are all getting to play D&D in a way they like; some are playing simple characters and role playing heavily, others are focusing on "builds" and using the rules to their advantage, and others still are just killing monsters and looting dungeons.
I may seem egotistical, and I'm sure I'm simply jealous because I've been working on this before D&D Next came out; but from what I've seen so far, this really is a game for everyone to enjoy. The biggest support to my idea is that at the table so far, I've been using a mix of OD&D, 1E, and 3E books to DM with; some of my players have been using 3E books; and yet another player is using a 2E book. We're taking what material and rules we like from those books, and getting the play the same game, at the same table together. Like I said, maybe we're having fun despite the rules, but I'd like to think that maybe there really is an essence to D&D, and we've managed to capture it.
Of course it's not news to me that there are gaming groups that have been doing this for ages. I'm simply codifying my methods for using all of that material together, and frankly I think WOTC is failing to do so. I've looked at next, and it doesn't look like it's going to accomplish any of the goals they're setting out to do.
There are glaring differences in play style from old school, however I'm not sure if it is due to mechanics, or my new play group. I've finally started going to my local gaming store, and a couple of the guys in my group are mainly 3.5/Pathfinder players. The good news is they love my rules, I'm not sure if they like them more than 3E, but they are extremely enthusiastic about them. The best part is they aren't asking to play 3E instead, and I've allowed them the use of any 3E books with my rules.
One of the players has really used that ability, and is using a class from Pathfinder (Oracle), and several feats from 3E.
As I said it's a very different style of gaming, it's much easier than strait old school, and characters are much more powerful. Furthermore because of it's similarities to 3rd Edition the 3E players are definitely focused on builds, and manipulating the rules for character creation. The system is definitely handling it well, and it's still no where as complicated or time consuming as 3rd or 4th Edition D&D. Overall I'd say I was successful in my goals, as it definitely feels like playing a video game, but it's still rules-lite and fast to play like OD&D.
Something that I love about my game is that anyone can play and have a good time. Whether that's because of rules, or despite them I don't know, but I do know that we're having fun. We've got old school players in our group that have never touched 3rd, we've got almost completely new players that played 4th once, and we've got experienced 3.5 players, and all of them are having a blast. More importantly, they are all getting to play D&D in a way they like; some are playing simple characters and role playing heavily, others are focusing on "builds" and using the rules to their advantage, and others still are just killing monsters and looting dungeons.
I may seem egotistical, and I'm sure I'm simply jealous because I've been working on this before D&D Next came out; but from what I've seen so far, this really is a game for everyone to enjoy. The biggest support to my idea is that at the table so far, I've been using a mix of OD&D, 1E, and 3E books to DM with; some of my players have been using 3E books; and yet another player is using a 2E book. We're taking what material and rules we like from those books, and getting the play the same game, at the same table together. Like I said, maybe we're having fun despite the rules, but I'd like to think that maybe there really is an essence to D&D, and we've managed to capture it.
Of course it's not news to me that there are gaming groups that have been doing this for ages. I'm simply codifying my methods for using all of that material together, and frankly I think WOTC is failing to do so. I've looked at next, and it doesn't look like it's going to accomplish any of the goals they're setting out to do.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)